SD 80'81 - Tuning Theory
808 Snare Continued...
Mut' Point
After considering my options I decided that modding the Mutant Snare was not the way to go. There will be no Mutoid Snare. Instead it will have to be a whole new module to get what I want.
However, I have made a list of mods that would not be particularly invasive and would make the Mutant Snare even more flexible. The main idea is to bring the filter CV jumper to a switch. This jumper setting selects between the snappy envelope and osc 1 as the source of CV for the filter cut-off when there is no CV external input. Anyway, that's a whole other project, but a (yep) side (drum, geddit?) panel would be cool.
The 80'81 SD
What I really want is an 808 snare with full control over both the oscillators. In fact, I wanted not only independent pitch controls, and therefore a tuneable ratio between for the combined shell tone, but also a switch selecting between the original 1980-81 tuning and the 1981-82 revision.
The two new controls on the 808 snare are:
- A switch to select between the two values of capacitor in the T-resonator circuit.
- Variable resistors for 'R2' of the bridged-T network - i.e. R197 and R198.
These new features are in addition to the usual Tone control, to balance the mix of the two oscillators and Snappy, to balance the amount of white noise 'snare' sound to the oscillators snare.
Other features are considered
below, but the initial concept is to keep the design simple and only add
the tuning controls, which I feel are "missing".
Switch Cap
Recall that the June 1981 TR-808 service manual describes a change to one capacitor in each of the two bridged-T network oscillators in the snare circuit. This change lowers the pitch of the 'shell' part of the snare drum and also subtly alters the ratio of their tuning.
This new switch is needed to achieve the full range, because varying a resistor in the bridged T-network alone would not achieve the same result. Ideally, when the tuning controls are in a central position (more on that later) the behaviour ought to be switching the overall tuning from original (1980-81) to new (1981-82).
Another consideration here is the Q factor of the bridged T. Whilst adjusting the resistance in the circuit can tune over a wide range the Q will change too, and not in the same way as switching the capacitor. This means that the decay time would change too. More on that below too.
A switch for the two capacitor values is thus required to maintain a 'true' 808 sound and can be used without touching the tuning controls to quickly select either the original or revised design.
Tuning Fine
Whilst the capacitor switching is a coarse control over the tuning there is also a desire on my part to be able to fine tune both oscillators. As noted above, this would correct for what I feel is lacking in the Mutant Snare. The need for this was covered in the previous post, but to be clear the benefits are:
- General facility to achieve different sounds, beyond standard 808s, above and below the nominal
- Adjustment of ratio, so that the tones are either in or out of harmony as required
- Adjustment of tuning to achieve specific tunings or any arbitrary non-standard tuning found on real machines, either circa 1980-82 or now on aged machines.
That last one, in the extreme, would make it possible to dial-in any particular machine's tuning. Want that classic Def Jam/Beastie Boys snare? Just get the tuner out and go for it! Or how about the latest clone, or Roland digital version? All possible.
Resistor Choices - Or, R2 Indeed To?
The most obvious solution for tuning is to replace the single
fixed values for R197 and R192 with a fixed resistor (a) of half the
value and a linear variable resistor (b) of the same value in series.
This is the suggested modification for the TR-606 snare tuning mentioned in the previous post.
In
this configuration, the mid-point of the variable resistor results in
the same impedance as the original single fixed value and the extremes of
the range are plus and minus half that resistance.
R197 is 820k and R198 is 1M and the ideal variable and fixed resistors would thus be as follows:
- R197a 410K & R197b 820K
- 198a 500K & R198b 1M
As 820K pots are not commonly available this means I need to decide what to use instead.
This brings into question the range of tuning and what I actually want or need, so before assuming the values given above, what is the range supposed to be?
R2 Detune or R1?
Before that though, what about R1? I am reminded that for the AteOhAte Toms project I struggled to find the required 500R potentiometers in the size I wanted. This made a complicated mechanical design even more fiendish as I could only source right-angled mounting 500R pots in the right size.
What size would I need for R195 and R196 though? They are 680R and 2K2 respectively, so 1K would seem right for R196, but R195 is more difficult. Perhaps that could be changed by tweaking R197? Hmm! But do I prefer this resistor being variable, or R2? Which is best? Why did Roland make R1 variable for the Conga/Toms?
The maths is the only way to know for sure. What I found is that the tuning and Q range are much wider when reducing R1 by half the value. For example, using R195 +/- 320R, it would be -20Hz and +96Hz Q is similarly lopsided. I had a similar problem altering R2, but by much smaller proportions, as we'll see.
So, why did Roland choose that variation for their Conga/Toms? Note that:-
- they all use the same R1/R2 values and simply alter the C1/C2 for each of low, mid, hi drums.
- R2 is 820K is each case, which is the same as the low shell of the snare,
- the 1K + 500 pot pair are in the same ball-park as R195 at 680R.
A-ha, though! The fixed resistor is twice the value of the pot, not half, so the range of R1 is 1K - 1.5K. This is a range of +/-0.25, not +/- 0.5. If I recalculate for a 680R this would be 510-680-850 a range of just 340R on the pot with a 510R in series.
In any case this this too small a value and not working out. Back to R2.
Tone Ranger
Let's look at the range of values I measured for real 808s and their clones etc. (all values in Hz)
Original values: Low = 202 - 254 / High = 443 - 499
Revised Values: Low = 159 - 189 / High = 326 - 374
Now let's look at the size of the range:
Original values: Low = 52 / High = 56
Revised values: Low = 40 / High = 48
Allowing for the unscientifically small sample involved, I think it's fair to say that at tuning range of around 50Hz, or slightly higher would be suitable to obtain all of the various types I found in the wild.
It's now worth pointing out that for the examples I found with original tuning were generally lower pitched than the calculated value and the examples with revised values were more evenly spread above and below the nominal. Whether this is significant I can't say, but the correct degree of the tuning range remains open to debate.Home (In) On the Range
The ideal potentiometer for the R197 of 820K is not available, so let's try 1M. The required mid-point is the same as R197 - 820K so let's see what that looks like:
i.e. let the range of frequency be around +/- 50Hz with variable resistor values +/- 500K (1M pot):
- 320K = 400Hz
- 820K = 250Hz
- 1.32M = 198Hz
This is is now a wider range than we wanted to begin with, so let's try a 500K resistor instead
and see how narrow that is
i.e. let the range of frequencies be around +/- 50Hz with values of variable resistor +/- 250K (500K pot):
- 570K = 300Hz
- 820K = 250Hz
- 1.07M = 219Hz
The range is now below what we wanted at 80Hz and the lower limit of the range is a bit too high. However, this is probably as good as it's going to get. The required centre frequency is in the middle of the potentiometer and trying to shift the range to be more central (+/-40Hz) is possible, but at the expense of that centring.
Out Of Bounds
There's another issue to look at with narrowing the range. When I flip the switch to the revised capacitor values.
i.e. let the range of frequencies be around +/- 50Hz with values of variable resistor +/- 250K (500K pot) and revised cap of 56nF:
- 570K = 208Hz
- 820K = 175Hz
- 1.07M = 152Hz
As you can see, by comparing with the calculation above, this range leaves a gap between the original and revised range of values. You can't bridge it with the potentiometer values. However, I note that this holds true for the actual 808s out there too. You can't find 808s that sit in the middle of the range.
This raises another question: what if there where a third capacitor value between the original and revised? This would be either 39nF as the nearest to halfway between 27nF and 56nF (41.5).
i.e. let the range of frequencies be around +/- 50Hz with values of variable resistor +/- 250K (500K pot) and revised cap of 39nF:
- 570K = 249Hz
- 820K = 208Hz
- 1.07M = 182Hz
I mean, why not? This third band allows for a full range, from end-to-end. Assuming I can find a DP3T switch which I like there's not much wrong with the idea and it adds that little bit more versatility. It will make tuning in some values easier anyway.
It also begs the question, why did Roland shift so far off the original tuning? It's not a subtle adjustment they made. They admit to rushing the snare after spending so long on the kick, but as we can't currently know that, all I can say is let's take that middle ground they left and see what's there.
High Note
i.e. let the range of frequencies be around +/- 50Hz with values of variable resistor +/- 250K (500K pot) and original cap of 6.8nF:
- 750K = 576Hz
- 1M = 499Hz
- 1.25M = 446Hz
Tabul-8
Oscillator |
Band |
Frequency (Hz) |
||||||||
High(Right) |
Original (6.8nF) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
446 |
499 |
576 |
Centre (10nF) |
|
368 |
411 |
475 |
|
|||||
Revised (15nF) |
|
300 |
336 |
388 |
|
|||||
Low(Left) |
Original (27nF) |
|
219 |
250 |
299 |
|
||||
Centre (39nF) |
|
182 |
208 |
249 |
|
|||||
Revised (56nF) |
152 |
173 |
208 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Cue the Q
It's not quite the end of the story though. We should really look at Q. Even though I didn't manage to work out how the Q factor is mathematically related to the decay time of the oscillators in the previous post it's clear that if Q changes a lot then there will be a problem. I don't want very long or very short sounds so let's see what the tuning does to Q.
It's actually a bit interesting! When I calculate the Q for the original, revised and centre bands across the range of the tuning each result is different. But, when I see what percentage the Q changes by, across the range it's the same. Exactly the same, to at least four decimal places. That seems wrong. Almost.
In each band the resistor values are the same, and as they make up the numerator in the Q equation the multiplication factor of the Q factor, as the tuning is changed, is the same. Hence there are only a few numbers we need to know.
- High osc Q : +13% / -12%
- Low osc Q : +17% / -14%
Fall In To Decay
As we know from the Service manual, the target decay times for both oscillators is 60 ms (as we'll see, one of those is totally wrong) and we can now get an idea from that what the decay time variation will be.
Here is an image from Audacity of a sample of the Low shell of the Roland ACB snare (from my TR-6S)
The vertical red marker shows 60ms and the two horizontal red markers show 1/10 Vpp. As you can see, the amplitude has not decayed to one tenth till later.
Here is a close-up of 60ms.
Now here's a view with 70ms marked.It's not exact, but the one tenth seems to be around 70ms not 60ms for this low shell.
Q Ball
It's A Factor
Time For τ
Shut Up and Calculate!
Q Bull?
Bouncing Is What Triggers Do Best
A side note on the distortion mentioned above is that the high shell oscillator circuit has a different trigger input to the low. I've been using the low oscillator throughout this to make sure I don't get too thrown off by this.
Conclusions
At last, I can derive values for frequency and decay time of both snare oscillators from the schematic values of the original and revised components in the 808 Service Manual. I can also calculate the frequencies and decay times of the proposed adjustable ranges for both circuits too! What's more, I can also compare these calculated figures to the 'typical' values quoted in the Service Manual and even check other sounds, such as the conga/toms.
Equations
To be clear, these are the equations (note I will use the '.' notation for multiplication)
Frequency of oscillation - f = 1/(2.π.sqrt(R1.R2.C1.C2))
Quality Factor - Q = SQRT(R2/R1)/(SQRT(C1/C2) + SQRT(C2/C1)
Decay Time of oscillation to 1/10 peak - Td = ln(10).Q/π.f
Results
Osc |
Revision |
R2 |
R1 |
C1 |
C2 |
f (Hz) |
Q |
Td (ms) |
High |
Typical |
|
|
|
|
476 |
|
|
Original |
1000000 |
2200 |
6.8E-09 |
6.8E-09 |
499.0 |
10.7 |
15.7 |
|
Revised |
1000000 |
2200 |
6.8E-09 |
1.5E-08 |
336.0 |
9.9 |
21.5 |
|
Original(Hi) |
750000 |
2200 |
6.8E-09 |
6.8E-09 |
576.2 |
9.2 |
11.7 |
|
1000000 |
2200 |
6.8E-09 |
6.8E-09 |
499.0 |
10.7 |
15.7 |
||
1250000 |
2200 |
6.8E-09 |
6.8E-09 |
446.3 |
11.9 |
19.6 |
||
Centre(Med) |
750000 |
2200 |
6.8E-09 |
1.2E-08 |
433.7 |
8.9 |
15.0 |
|
1000000 |
2200 |
6.8E-09 |
1.2E-08 |
375.6 |
10.2 |
20.0 |
||
1250000 |
2200 |
6.8E-09 |
1.2E-08 |
336.0 |
11.5 |
25.0 |
||
Revised(Low) |
750000 |
2200 |
6.8E-09 |
1.5E-08 |
388.0 |
8.6 |
16.2 |
|
1000000 |
2200 |
6.8E-09 |
1.5E-08 |
336.0 |
9.9 |
21.5 |
||
1250000 |
2200 |
6.8E-09 |
1.5E-08 |
300.5 |
11.0 |
26.9 |
||
Low |
Typical |
|
|
|
|
238.0 |
|
60.0 |
Original |
820000 |
680 |
2.7E-08 |
2.7E-08 |
249.6 |
17.4 |
51.0 |
|
Revised |
820000 |
680 |
5.6E-08 |
2.7E-08 |
173.3 |
16.3 |
68.8 |
|
Original(Hi) |
570000 |
680 |
2.7E-08 |
2.7E-08 |
299.4 |
14.5 |
35.4 |
|
820000 |
680 |
2.7E-08 |
2.7E-08 |
249.6 |
17.4 |
51.0 |
||
1070000 |
680 |
2.7E-08 |
2.7E-08 |
218.5 |
19.8 |
66.5 |
||
Centre(Med) |
570000 |
680 |
3.9E-08 |
2.7E-08 |
249.1 |
14.2 |
41.9 |
|
820000 |
680 |
3.9E-08 |
2.7E-08 |
207.7 |
17.1 |
60.2 |
||
1070000 |
680 |
3.9E-08 |
2.7E-08 |
181.8 |
19.5 |
78.6 |
||
Revised(Low) |
570000 |
680 |
5.6E-08 |
2.7E-08 |
207.9 |
13.6 |
47.8 |
|
820000 |
680 |
5.6E-08 |
2.7E-08 |
173.3 |
16.3 |
68.8 |
||
1070000 |
680 |
5.6E-08 |
2.7E-08 |
151.7 |
18.6 |
89.8 |
Note that the Low Centre(Medium) tuning is 60ms decay time, but the frequency is quite different to the 'typical' value of 238Hz. You can probably see that there are many ways to get the frequency, Q or decay time to match one of the typcal values. Getting all to match the typical figures is another matter...
In conclusion, I have a design for my 8081 Snare Drum. The frequency ranges shown above will give the control I desire and the decay times will not be too far from the normal, even at the extremes.
Futile Resistance
Tuning Dork
Calculating the oscillation frequency for these values of 197 is not good news though.
i.e. let the range of values be 410K +/- 410K (820K pot):
- 410K = 353.Hz
- 820K = 250 Hz
- 1.23M = 203Hz
Note that the range is uneven with the extremes at +103Hz and - 47Hz, which is uneven.
Get Bent
With a range in mind, what about that unevenness? This not surprising as it's applying a linear change in resistance to a function for the frequency which is 1/f(x), where f(x) involves a square root. As you would expect that will curve the frequency range, it's an inverse power curve, in fact, so even though it's simple to make the mid-point of the control align with 250Hz the rest will not be a straight line.
Plot of frequency of bridged-T network against a linear increase in R2 resistance |
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=plot+1%2F%282*Pi*SQRT%28x*680*0.000000027*0.000000027%29%29+from+x%3D410000+to+1230000
Can the the variable
resistor taper be curved to counteract the curve of the 1/f(x) of the
frequency range? As we're dealing with resistance and not the voltage
output this topic can be misunderstood and some advice on the internets
might give the impression that you can convert the taper of a linear
variable resistor to curve either way. So what do
we want the curve to be?
Required Curve
Firstly let's restate the resistance as: A minimum value is provided by the fixed resistor, the maximum by the variable resistor. Then let's decide what range we require in the frequencies. Staying with the original capacitor values and the lower pitched oscillator ,the middle of the range is 250Hz and around +/-50Hz (or a bit more) is the target, so the limits are 200-300Hz. We know that the resistances for the mid and bottom to achieve that goal and for the value at the top of the range I iterated through a few calculations to get a usable value.
i.e. let the range of frequency be +/- 50Hz):
- 560K = 302Hz
- 820K = 250Hz
- 1.2M = 203Hz
This is a range of 640K for the variable resistor, which is not practically possible to obtain as a potentiometer, even if there curve was ideal. Let's just look at what that resistance taper would have to be in in order to get a straight line through the frequencies though.
Ideal R2 of bridged-T network to obtain linear frequncy range Vs linear R2 |
Notice that this curve is quite close to ideal. Almost ideal. It's also curved under. If you know what happens when changing the curve by adding resistors in parallel with a pot you will see that this isn't helpful :-)
Taper Reorder
As I mentioned, there are various guides and opinions around the internet with people saying you can adjust the curve of a linear to a log-like (not precise log) or anti-log-like, or indeed vice versa.
Here's how the linear curve changes with a taper resister
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/258443/convert-reverse-log-taper-potentiometer-to-log-audio-taper-potentiometer
However this is misleading. The curve plotted here is not the total resistance across two nodes, but the output voltage (or power or whatever). The resistance across the two nodes, given as e1, is not the the same curve at all. With the wiper at the top the pot the resistance is the combined parallel values and when it's at the bottom the nodes are shorted - zero resistance.
To keep the comparison with the above plots I need a pair of resistor values that will give me a range of 640K, i.e. the parallel resistance is 640K. Using 1M pot with 1.8M taper resistor I plotted the curve.
And as you can see - it curves the wrong way! And there's no way to get it to bend the other way. If Rtaper is increased the curve eventually disappears because the current just cannot get through and it's closing in on open circuit. If Rtaper is smaller the opposite happens and the path of least resistance is through that and there is a eventual flattening of the curve until only the very start gives any increase and then it's stuck at the level of Ttaper. So, that doesn't work!
Falling off a log
I cribbed some actual values from the Alpha datasheet to see what their real log response is like and this is how it compares to the ideal curve and the linear for an imaginary 640K pot.
OK, the Log pot is way off, but can I bring it in line by adding a taper resistor? Curve it back?? Note the factor above for the relationship between the resistors and the curve is given as R2/R1, for the values above that is 1.8. I've plotted that and... It's underwhelming.
Well, okay, it's not good, but what if the value this alpha factor is higher? Errm...Can I achieve that? I will need a value for the R2 which is much higher and still get the range I want of 640K. Hmm! Yes, this is errm and hmm!
Can it be done? Getting a different ratio is easy peasy, but getting that ratio to equate to 640K still is not possible. Damn. If you start with a 1M pot there's one value for the taper resistor which will get you there. 1.8M. We already got that! Well, what if the pot is 500K instead? Well, I hardly have to point out a lower resistance than 640K is not going to get any higher when you put a resistor in parallel. OK. Could I have a dual-log pot 1M, giving me 2M in total? Well, even if you can figure out that wiring, the problem is it's just flipped the maths around and the ratio is now worse. Something like 940K/2M = 0.47. Going the wrong way!
It seems that this trick of flattening out a log taper only works if you make a compromise of the range, but even then the ends of the series are way out. I played around with various values and the curve will bend the right way eventually, but it's nowhere near as close at the basic linear range I got to begin with. It's just not ever going to match up because log and power are not the same curves and there are no precise pots with power curves in the range I want.
Tapering Off
In conclusion the temptation to bend a linear pot just out of alignment doesn't work and trying the same with a log pot is worse. An antilog pot would be the just as bad as the log. So, that's that. I will have to put up with an uneven range.
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